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Anthony J. Bellezza, CPA
Anthony J. Bellezza is currently the Senior Vice President and Chief Compliance Officer (COO) at Rite Aid. He also serves as the Chief Ethics & Risk Officer for the company. Prior to joining Rite Aid, Mr. Bellezza was a Partner at Ernst & Young. While there, he served as the Mid-Atlantic Business Risk Services Leader, responsible for developing and growing the BRS practice. Mr. Bellezza also served as the Chief Audit Executive for a multinational Fortune 500 Company. With his combined experiences, Mr. Bellezza has created a leading practice integrated Governance, Risk & Compliance (GRC) framework. This integrated framework covers all aspects from Executive Management and Board oversight to the elements of Risk Management, Compliance and Regulatory Matters, Ethics, Investigations and Fraud Reporting, along with the important monitoring component. The goal of the integrated framework is to institutionalize GRC within an organization and make it a critical component for operating the business.
Steve Biskie, CISA, CITP, CPA, CGMA
Steve Biskie is the Managing Director at High Water Advisors, a consulting firm that helps organizations improve governance, risk management, compliance (GRC) and audit processes. Mr. Biskie was formerly the President of ERP Audit Solutions and Customer Solutions Director at ACL Services, Ltd. First introduced to SAP in the mid-90s while working as an external auditor for Deloitte & Touche, Mr. Biskie has been involved with SAP systems in a variety of roles, including as an internal auditor, consultant, implementation team member, compliance team lead, and SAP Steering Committee Chair. He worked directly with SAP as part of the SAP Influence Council for the Management of Internal Controls (MIC) tool, the first iteration of what is now the SAP GRC BusinessObjects suite. An internationally recognized expert, Mr. Biskie was the keynote speaker at the first Sarbanes-Oxley for SAP Customers event. A much sought-after trainer on SAP governance, audit, and control topics, Mr. Biskie is consistently rated as a top speaker at the SAP GRC conference. Mr. Biskie was an Expert Reviewer for Security, Audit, and Control Features: SAP ERP (3rd Edition), and authored Surviving an SAP Audit.
Jerod Brennen, CISSP
Jerod Brennen is the CTO and Principal Security Consultant with Jacadis, an award-winning security solutions and services provider. Mr. Brennen has over a decade of IT, information security, and compliance experience. Prior to joining Jacadis, he spent years as an Information Security Specialist with American Electric Power, one of the largest electric utilities in the U.S., before moving to Abercrombie & Fitch (A&F). At A&F, Mr. Brennen built out and managed the information security program, security operations, PCI and SOX compliance, and identity and access management.
Doug S. Brown, CPA
Doug S. Brown, CPA is Professor of Accounting at Montana State University Billings, where he teaches courses on financial accounting, auditing, business law, and management. Previously, Mr. Brown was Lead Auditor for Chevron Corporation where his responsibilities included audits of Chevron USA's oil and gas accounting functions and providing audit expertise for large disputed construction contracts between Chevron and major vendors. During his 20-year career, Mr. Brown has held Senior Auditor positions at Crown Zellerback Corporation and Fluor Corporation, and worked as a staff auditor for Coopers & Lybrand. A member of the AICPA and the IIA, Mr. Brown has published numerous articles in The Internal Auditor and Internal Auditing. He is also the Lead Instructor for the Montana Society of CPA's Ethics Continuing Professional Education Program and the Montana State University - Billings CPA Review Program.
Ann M. Butera, CRP
Ann M. Butera is the Founder and President of The Whole Person Project, Inc., an organizational development consulting firm that specializes in assisting companies to introduce, handle, and manage change. As a lecturer and trainer, she provides proven strategies in the areas of corporate governance, auditing and internal controls, business risk assessment, leadership and managerial skill development, and project planning and management. Ms. Butera is a member of the IIA, the American Society for Training and Development, and the World Future Society.
Denise Cicchella, CIA, CFE, CCA, PMP
Denise Cicchella is the founder of Auspicium LLC, a boutique consultancy firm focused on risk management and audit services tailored to construction and facilities management. A recognized expert in construction audit, Ms. Cicchella specializes in protecting owners from overpayment of construction costs due to contractor fraud, error, or negligence. Prior to founding Auspicium, Ms. Cicchella was Director of Altran Control Solutions, where she led the construction audit practice and was responsible for training employees and developing a methodology that led to recoveries of over 7% on construction audits. Previously, Ms. Cicchella held the position of Senior Auditor at MetLife and Supervisor at United Jersey Bank. Ms. Cicchella is the author of Construction Audit Guide: Overview, Monitoring and Auditing, and co-author of Essentials of Construction Management, co-author and co-editor of Auditing for Corporates. She is the founder president of the NY/NJ chapter of the National Association of Construction Auditors, an advisory board member of the ACFE, and a former member of the Woman Bankerís Association.
Jason D. Claycomb, CISA, CISSP
Jason Claycomb is the founder of INARMA LLC, where he helps clients assess, implement, and manage GRC policies and processes. He is a 25-year veteran in computer system security, audit, and development. Mr. Claycomb brings a realistic approach to GRC to comply with laws, federal regulations, and industry best practices. Mr. Claycomb is proficient in IT planning, systems development and installation, data analysis and reporting, and in evaluating logical and physical controls. Previously, he served as National Director of IT Services at Jefferson Wells (now Expiris), and a Manager at PricewaterhouseCoopers. Mr. Claycomb also served as the Director of IT Services at CrossCheck Compliance LLC, where he worked extensively with financial services companies to analyze risk and implement appropriate controls, and as an IT Auditor at First Colonial Bankshares Corporation. Mr. Claycomb is a member of ISACA, IIA, and ISSA. He is on the Security White Paper Committee Co-Chairman of the Technology Executiveís Club.
Dennis Cox, BSC, FCA, FISI
Dennis Cox is the Founder and Chief Executive of Risk Reward Ltd, where he oversees all consulting and training projects. A recognized financial services risk management and internal audit expert, he specializes in Basel Accord challenges surrounding credit, market, and operational risk, as well as other business and regulatory requirements. Mr. Cox has more than 25 years of experience in the areas of risk, banking, audit, and accounting. He has held senior management positions within the banking and accountancy profession as Director, Risk Management at HSBC Insurance Brokers Limited, and Director, Risk Management, Prudential Portfolio Managers. Formerly he held a number of roles within the audit profession, including Senior Audit Manager (Compliance) at HSBC Holdings PLC and Senior Manager (Banking and Finance) at both BDO Binder Hamlyn and Arthur Young. Mr. Cox is a Fellow, Co-founder and Chairman of the Risk Forum for the UK Chartered Securities and Investment Institute and administers the Risk Reward Global Risk Forum on LinkedIn. A Fellow of the Institute of Chartered Accountants (FCA), he has also been a National Council Member for 15 years. A much in-demand speaker and trainer, Mr. Cox is the author of Banking and Finance: Accounts, Audit and Practice. He is currently writing two books, An Introduction to Money Laundering Deterrence and The International Handbook of Money Laundering Deterrence. He is the co-author of The Mathematics of Banking & Finance, and is the senior editor and author of several chapters in The Frontiers of Risk Management.
Kathleen M. Crawford
Kathleen Crawford is a Senior Consultant for MIS Training Institute, and President of Crawford Consulting and Communications, LLC, a firm specializing in assurance, investigative, and advisory projects for small firms without an internal audit function. Previously, Ms. Crawford was an Internal Auditor for Vinfen Corporation, where her responsibilities included assisting management in standardizing operations, developing policies and procedures, and improving processes. In addition, she investigated all suspected financial crimes, collecting evidence to ensure successful prosecution and recovery of company and client assets. Ms. Crawford trained other investigators in a methodology for detecting and documenting fraud that met the unique compliance requirements of MA Department of Health and Human Services. She began her career as a bank auditor, first with Bank of New England, then Eastern Bank, and State Street Bank. Her responsibilities in these institutions included internal audits and fraud investigations. A member of The Institute of Internal Auditors, Ms. Crawford is a past President of the Greater Boston Chapter of The IIA. She is also a member of the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners and the American Society for Training and Development. Ms. Crawford serves as Treasurer of the Board of Trustees of the Foxborough Regional Charter School and its foundation, Friends of FRCS.
Ken Cutler is President and Principal Consultant of Ken Cutler & Associates (KCA) InfoSec Assurance. He is the Director Ė Professional Certification Programs for Security University. Mr. Cutler is also a Senior Teaching Fellow at CPEi (CPE Interactive), specializing in Technical Audits of IT Security and related IT controls. Ken is an internationally recognized consultant and trainer in the Information Security and IT Audit fields. He is both certified as and has conducted courses for: Certified Information Systems Security Professional (CISSP), Certified Information Security Manager (CISM), Certified Information Systems Auditor (CISA) and CompTIA Security+. Ken is a Qualified Ethical Hacker (Q/EH) and both teaches and performs vulnerability testing around the world. In cooperation with Security University, he recently was featured in two full length training videos on CISSP and Security+. Ken is a frequent and much-in-demand speaker on a wide array of IS and IT Audit topics. He has also managed and directly participated in numerous Information Security consulting projects under various former MISTI affiliated professional services divisions, including the Information Security Institute (ISI) and Advanced Information Management (AIM). He has also managed and directly participated in numerous Information Security consulting projects under various former MISTI affiliated professional services divisions, including the Information Security Institute (ISI) and Advanced Information Management (AIM).
Barbara Davison CIA, CIDA, CISA, FLMI
Barbara Davison is President of the Investment Training and Consulting Institute, Inc. (ITCI). ITCI provides training and consulting in the areas of investments, derivatives, risk management, M&A strategies and communication development to management, operations and auditors. Previously, Ms. Davison was Vice President of a financial institution where she directed investment operations for the general account and mutual funds. Prior to her seven years in investments, she was Manager of Internal Audit for six years, responsible for the management of corporate audit activities, computer security, and information systems audits. She also assisted in new business strategies. Ms. Davison obtained her Series 7 and Series 65 from the National Association of Security Dealers (NASD). She has authored five books, including Auditing Investments, Auditing Derivative Strategies, Understanding and Auditing Mergers and Acquisitions, Understanding and Auditing Investment and Derivative Strategies, and Presentation, Persuasion and Facilitation Skills for Auditors.
Greg Duckert, CIA, CISA, CMA, CPA
Greg Duckert, is CEO of Audit, Inc., a consulting firm specializing in risk assessment models, operational analysis, and audit process methodologies designed to maximize returns to the organization. Mr. Duckert is also a Senior Consultant for MIS Training Institute and has over 30 years of national and international experience as an Internal/IS Audit Director. Mr. Duckert has held Audit Director positions in the manufacturing, construction and healthcare industries, assuming responsibilities for financial, operational, and information systems auditing functions. His information systems expertise includes application audits, software acquisition, systems development, controls, security design, adequacy and implementation, and systems' operational efficiencies. He has performed consulting services in IS, financial, and operational audits, as well as in business acquisitions and start-ups.
Mark T. Edmead, MBA, CISA, CISSP
Mark Edmead is the Managing Director at MTE Advisors and a Senior Instructor for MIS Training Institute. He is a 30-year-veteran of computer systems architecture, information security, and project management. Mr. Edmead has extensive knowledge of IT and application audits, IT governance, and SOX compliance auditing. His expertise in the areas of information security and protection includes access controls, cryptography, security management practices, network and Internet security, computer security law and investigations, and physical security. He has consulted with Fortune 500 and 1000 companies and worked with a number of international firms. Mr. Edmead has authored articles in Compliance Advisor Magazine, IT Compliance Journal, IIA Insights, and The Auditor. In addition, he is an adjunct professor at the Keller Graduate School of Management.
Lynn Fountain, CGMA, CRMA, MBA
Lynn Fountain has over 30 years of experience in the business profession and over 20 years in internal and external auditing combined. She is a nationally recognized trainer and speaker and also a published author. She is a subject matter expert in Internal Audit, Sarbanes-Oxley, ERM, Fraud, Governance and Compliance. Ms. Fountain has developed and delivered leading edge training on the new COSO framework and has assisted companies in identifying risk gap analysis in their individual processes. She currently executes two highly recognized e-workshops for the Institute of Internal Auditors on Fraud and Ethics, both of which incorporate aspects of COSO 2013. She has performed as an adjunct instructor for the School of Business for Grantham University and the School of Business at the University of Kansas.
Stan Fromhold, CISSP, CISA
Stan Fromhold is a Pursuit Lead for HP's Enterprise Security Services. In his role he provides security solutions to some of HP's largest multinational clients. Prior to HP, Mr. Fromhold was a Security Solutions Architect for British Telecom's security practice where he was responsible for the design and bid of major customer security and governance programs. Mr. Fromhold has worked in information security for more than 25 years, with specializations in the area of enterprise security architecture solutions for converged networks, vulnerability assessments, security education, and security compliance audits. He has significant experience in assisting organizations define and implement security architectures and policies for vulnerability and threat management, security information and event monitoring, and intrusion detection and prevention architectures. Previously, Mr. Fromhold held security director positions with Dun & Bradstreet and Munich Re/Americas.
Martin H. Green, Esq.
Martin Green is a senior instructor for MIS Training Institute. As a member of the MIS faculty for more than 20 years, his areas of expertise include computer technology, networking, and security. Mr. Green is the principal of Martin H. Green, P.C. Mr. Green concentrates his practice on the representation of companies in matters pertaining to computer technology, trade secrets, intellectual property, and copyright law. He also maintains an active consulting practice to lawyers and other professional service businesses regarding office automation and related auditing and security challenges. Mr. Green is a member of the Massachusetts Bar, the Massachusetts Academy of Trial Attorneys, and the American Trial Lawyers Association.
Jeffrey T. Hare, CPA, CISA, CIA
Jeffrey Hare is the CEO of ERP Risk Advisors, a leading thought leadership firm providing risk advisory services for organizations running Oracle Applications. Mr. Hareís extensive background includes public accounting (including Big Four experience), industry, and Oracle Applications consulting experience. He has worked in the Oracle Applications space since 1998 with implementation, upgrade, and support experience. Mr. Hare published Oracle E-Business Suite Controls: Application Security Best Practices in 2009. He has written white papers and articles, some of which have been published by organizations such as ISACA, the ACFE, and the OAUG. Mr. Hare is also a contributing author for Best Practices in Financial Risk Management, published in 2009.
Stephen Kost is the Chief Technology Officer for Integrigy Corporation, which specializes in the securing mission critical databases and ERP applications. He has worked with Oracle products since 1994 in many roles including database administrator, technical architect, IT security auditor, and applications administrator. Mr. Kost has been writing about and presenting on Oracle security and auditing since then. Prior to founding Integrigy, Mr. Kost worked at Ernst & Young and Price Waterhouse.
Joel F. Kramer, CPA
Joel F. Kramer is Managing Director of the Internal Audit Division of MIS Training Institute. Mr. Kramer joined MIS in 1982, and introduced its highly respected Internal Audit curriculum. Prior to joining MIS, Mr. Kramer was Director of Internal Audit for Instrumentation Laboratory, Inc. He also worked for both The Gillette Company and Coopers & Lybrand. Mr. Kramer was inducted into the Institute of Internal Auditorsí American Hall of Distinguished Practitioners in 2013. He is a recognized speaker at international, national, and regional audit conferences. Mr. Kramer has written several articles for The Internal Auditor and Protivitiís Knowledge Leader. He is a past member of the Board of Governors of the Greater Boston Chapter of the IIA, and currently serves on the Advisory Board of the Louisiana State University Center for Internal Auditing.
Susan M. Landauer, CPA
Susan Landauer is a partner in the firm Forensic Accounting Services Group, LLC, which specializes in fraud investigations, prevention and training. Ms. Landauer has over 25 years of experience in the accounting and the financial services industry and has conducted fraud investigations for clients in various industries, including banking, manufacturing, and construction. Ms. Landauer is a member of the American Institute of Certified Public Accountants, the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners, and the Capital District chapter of the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners. She serves as a Supervisory Committee member of SEFCU, is a trustee on the SEFCU Foundation, and serves as financial expert to the Audit Committee of the New York State Teacherís Retirement System.
Robert McDonough, CRP, CIDA
Robert McDonough is the President and CEO of a financial services consultancy and the Executive Director of Global Financial Markets Institute, Inc. Mr. McDonough began his career as a commercial banking and capital markets special advisor at the Federal Reserve System, where his responsibilities included evaluating capital market strategies and recommending risk management strategies to senior management. After leaving the Federal Reserve System, he joined Accenture Ltd. as a Senior Manager in the Financial Services Practice.
Dr. Hernan Murdock, CIA, CRMA
Dr. Hernan Murdock is Vice President, Audit Division with MIS Training Institute. Prior to joining MISTI, he was the Director of Training at Control Solutions International where he oversaw the company's training and employee development program. Previously, he was a Senior Project Manager leading audit and consulting projects for clients in the manufacturing, transportation, high-tech, education, insurance, and power generation industries. He authored the books 10 Key Techniques to Improve Team Productivity and Using Surveys in Internal Auditing, and articles on whistleblowing programs, international auditing, mentoring programs, fraud, deception, corporate social responsibility and behavioral profiling.
William J. Nealon, CIA, CFE
William J. Nealon is a Senior Consultant for MIS Training Institute. A former Audit Manager for the New York State Comptrollerís Office, Mr. Nealon was responsible for identifying, planning, and overseeing financial, operational, and programmatic audits and studies in the Higher Education, Tax and Health areas of government. His experience includes audits of the State University of New York, the City University of New York, New York State Department of Taxation and Finance and the New York State Lottery. He was the on-site audit supervisor during the $1.5 billion construction of the Nelson A. Rockefeller Empire State Plaza. During his career, Mr. Nealon was also the Chief Auditor of Refunds for New York State where he was responsible for the audit and approval of all personal and business tax refunds issued by the State. A 30-year audit veteran, Mr. Nealonís career includes extensive experience in planning and designing audits to detect fraud and identify poor controls that increase fraud opportunities. He was involved in fraud scenarios that resulted in convictions, and he is currently developing a college-level fraud audit course. In addition, Mr. Nealon was an Adjunct Professor of Management at the Graduate College of Union University for 15 years, and an Adjunct Instructor at Rensselaer Polytechnic Instituteís Lally School of Management and Technology. He taught courses in accounting and auditing at the graduate and undergraduate levels. Mr. Nealon is a member of the Institute of Internal Auditors and the Association of Certified Fraud Examiners.
Charles V. Pask, CISSP, M.Inst.ISP
Charles Pask, CISSP, is the Managing Director of ITSEC Associates Ltd, responsible for delivering global IT security and IT audit consultancy services, including public and in-house training courses, conferences, symposiums and general information security consultancy. Previously, he was a Director with MIS Training, and Director of Information Security Institute (ISI) European and Middle East e-Security Services. Mr. Pask has over 25 yearsí experience in IT, IT audit, and IT security, and was the Information Security Manager for Alliance & Leicester plc prior to joining MISTI. More recently, Mr. Pask was the Global Head of Strategy, Development and Globalization for the BT Business Continuity, Security and Governance Practice. Chairman of the prestigious CISO conferences for the last six years, Mr. Pask was a member of the ITSEC Common Criteria team working with the DTI, and a committee member of the APACS Security Advisory Group and the LINK Security Group. He has spoken at a number of conferences, including CISO, WebSec, Compsec, the International Security Managers Symposium, and various ISACA events. Mr. Pask delivers a number of MIS Training Instituteís IT Audit and Security training programs, including IT Auditing and Controls, IT Audit School. Risk-Based IT Auditing, How to Manage an Information Security Program and Information Security Boot Camp.
Ronald D. Risner, CIA, CCA, CCP
Ronald D. Risner is the Founder and President of Risner Consulting Group, Inc., an audit and consulting firm specializing in the construction industry. He has performed over 100 construction audits for many Fortune 500 companies as well as other large organizations. Over the years he has developed a litany of construction management best practice internal and cost controls. Mr. Risner has authored several construction audit magazine articles and currently writes a quarterly column on construction auditing for a healthcare internal audit magazine. His is the author of The Practitioner's Blueprint to Construction Auditing, published in the fall of 2012 by the Institute of Internal Auditors Research Foundation.
Fred C. Roth, CISA
Fred Roth is Vice President of MIS Training Instituteís IT Audit Division, where he facilitates and coordinates its IT Audit and Sarbanes-Oxley IT Audit curriculum. Mr. Roth also provides extensive direction and training to organizations worldwide in planning and assessing IT risk areas. Previously, Mr. Roth spent more than 25 years in system development and information technology audit and security with Eastman Kodak Company. As Corporate Audit Project Manager, he had worldwide responsibility for planning and coordinating Kodakís IS/IT audits in the United States, Asia, Europe and South America. Mr. Roth was a key player in Kodakís successful worldwide SAP implementation, where he was responsible for the Corporate Audit partnership on the project and for assessing controls during system design and implementation. He is a frequent speaker at international conferences and does IT control and security training on a worldwide basis.
Thomas Salzman, CISA
Tom Salzman is IS Audit Manager for Illinois State University, where he manages all computer audits conducted by the University. Previously, Mr. Salzman was Director of Professional Services for the EDPAA (now ISACA), where he was responsible for establishing and supporting their worldwide network of educational programs, conferences, and special events. Prior to joining the EDPAA, Mr. Salzman was with Coopers & Lybrand, heading their Technical Training and Information Security practices. He has presented numerous CISA review courses, co-authored The EDPAA CISA Review Manual, and tracks providers of IS audit products and services worldwide for inclusion in an industry resource catalogue.
Marilyn Stanton, MSOD
Marilyn Stanton is a Consultant with Illuminated Consulting LLC, a leadership development consulting firm that partners with organizations pursuing strategic change and operational effectiveness. Ms. Stantonís 25 plus years of international and North American experience includes working with the United Arab Emirates Central Bank on management and infrastructure strengthening, implementing a systems-wide internal controls framework (COSO) at the US Federal Reserve Bank, and consulting to Fortune 500 firms in the manufacturing, retail, high-tech, and bio-tech sectors on strategic change initiatives such as SOX implementation, private payments network installation, global supply chain redesign, off-shore outsourcing, drug commercialization process, and IT systems implementation. Her firm also specializes in assessing and developing intercultural leadership competencies to reduce business risks associated with miscommunication and mistrust in critical international or domestic multicultural business relationships. Ms. Stanton has also been an instructor at the college and university level for 20 years where she taught various courses on organizational change and doing business globally.
Alan Sugano is President of ADS Consulting Group, Inc. Mr. Suganoís areas of expertise include networking; server, workstation, and application virtualization; security; custom programming; Web development; SharePoint; and SQL server development. Previously, he was with Coopers & Lybrand (now PricewaterhouseCoopers) as an MAS consultant. Mr. Sugano speaks regularly on such topics as virtualization, network audit and security, troubleshooting, network design and implementation, server selection, network documentation and management, and disaster recovery. He is a Contributing Editor for Windows IT Pro and the author of the Real-World Network Troubleshooting Manual. He is a Microsoft Most Valuable Professional (MVP).
Richard H. Tarr, CISA, CIA
Richard H. Tarr is an audit and information systems (IT) veteran. As an audit and information systems consultant and President of Richard Tarr and Associates, his consulting practice specializes in: the development and training of integrated internal auditing functions; internal audit quality assurance reviews; and application and general control reviews. His extensive experience includes the development, training, and evaluation of internal audit departments in government, industry and higher education with more than 100 external quality assessment reviews over the past 20 years. Previously, he was the Manager of Quality Assurance Review Services for the Institute of Internal Auditors (IIA) and was with the Walt Disney Company for 10 years.
Leonard W. Vona, CPA, CFE
Leonard W. Vona is CEO of Fraud Auditing, Inc. He has more than 30 years of diversified auditing and forensic accounting experience, including a distinguished 18-year private industry career. His firm advises clients in areas of litigation support, financial investigations, fraud prevention and income taxes. Mr. Vona has successfully conducted more than 100 financial investigations for some of the largest high-profile corporations in the United States. The net result of his efforts has saved clients millions of dollars through recovery or defense strategies. His financial investigation experience includes embezzlement, economic damage, asset theft, bribery, intellectual property, and various disbursement schemes. Mr. Vonaís trial experience is extensive, including appearances in federal and state courts. He is qualified as an expert witness, and has been cited in West Law for the successful use of circumstantial evidence, and the author of Wiley Publishing's Fraud Risk Assessment: Building a Fraud Audit Program and The Fraud Audit: Responding to the RIsk of Fraud in Core Business Systems.
William Woodington, CPA, CIA
William Woodington spent 18 years managing the Learning & Development (L&D) function for Wells Fargo Audit & Security. He is a CPA and CIA with a bachelorís degree in Accounting and a masterís degree in Finance. He is also a member of the Institute of Internal Auditors (IIA) and American Society for Training & Development (ASTD). Prior to working at Wells Fargo, Mr. Woodington worked for First Bank System and Deloitte and Touche.